Hi:)

I have a  question about the Color Management dialog in Corel, more specific the arrow down to the monitor "Turn on monitor compensation".

My monitor is already calibrated (using a Huey Pro). The monitor ICC profile is associated with the monitor through Windows Vista and active.

Question: Should the Corel monitor compensation also be turned on? Or will this lead to that the monitor get compensated twice, first by Windows and then by Corel?

Does anyone know?  

/Michael 

Pixit:

Question: Should the Corel monitor compensation also be turned on?

Yes this is a must, also Vista needs to be activated to use ICC profile viewing

http://www.coreldrawpro.com/AllBookstore.htm

The above is a link to my Color Management Book on the CorelDRAW Graphics Suite.  It covers Vista and all CM settings in the suite.

BTW at one time there was a bug with the Huey Profile being used in CD I will check to see if it has been resolved.

Pixit:

My monitor is already calibrated (using a Huey Pro).

Yes the Huey fix was done before release.

A question though.....if the Huey software is calibrating all the stuff at the O/S level then installing the profile into CGS would then double calibrate....I would assume that one would either....

 a) use the Huey software to install at the O/S level and use it's control panel app to calibrate for the screen (IMHO, this is not the optionI would choose)

b) get the .icm file that was genereated by the Huey and install it into windows and CorelDRAW....I would not activate the preview from internal color space to monitor though as the O/S would already be calibrating the display.

 Thoughts?

T. 

Tony Severenuk:

.....if the Huey software is calibrating all the stuff at the O/S level then installing the profile into CGS would then double calibrate..

Nope!  Whether it's the Huey of Gretag Profile Maker Pro software when you create a monitor profile and activate it through the operating system you must load it in the main color management dialog of the graphics suite. 

If you're soft proofing, (which for a multitude of reasons you should not), RGB images are simulated (incorrectly in many cases) to the profile of the device and then simulated to the custom monitor RGB.

In CMYK mode in CorelDRAW X3 or X4 if you're NOT soft proofing, (good) the arrow from the internal RGB to the custom monitor profile MUST be activated to provide the proper default soft CMYK proof which will be the separations printer, simulated in the custom monitor profile.

In RGB mode in CorelDRAW and for RGB in Corel Photo-PAINT the arrow from the internal RGB to the custom monitor profile MUST be activated to provide the proper RGB display for RGB images and the internal RGB MUST match the color space of residence of the image.  This will be simulated in the custom monitor profile. 

Now to the how do I know part of this, when we open a control image in Photoshop, which all Adobe products pick up the display device profile from the OS,  and open the same image in CorelDRAW in RGB mode or Corel Photo-PAINT with all applications color management setting set to match and read the displays of the image with a program like Color Mania or Color Cop the readings are identical.

Color Cop and Color Mania are designed to read the RGB numbers from the display profile.  So exact numbers from the two applications means no changes between the two applications.

Why does this happen?  Principle of assumed color space, in PS the color information comes down to the monitor profile as the PS internal RGB and is changed to the monitor profile by the OS.  In Corel the color information for the file is already converted to the monitor profile, in the OS the monitor profile recognizes itself and does nothing.    Same as when we open a RGB tagged image in PP and select to use the embedded ICC profile and that matches the internal RGB of PP.

I think you need to check that Tony and write a very accurate story on a blog.

The way I check that stuff is to use a profile that is really screwed up so you can see what is happening.

http://imagonullius.com/corel-ng/muckup.icc

That is really twisted and should make what happens obvious. 

Yani:

http://imagonullius.com/corel-ng/muckup.icc

First this link is to a printer profile that cannot be linked to the monitor in the OS. Second the test using mucked up profiles almost always cause more issues then they answer due to complicated thought processes.  However in this case a good messed up monitor profile will work and as stated before, http://blogs.msdn.com/color_blog/archive/2006/09/29/Profile-utilization-test-image-and-profile.aspx  has a test image that you can ignore and a profile to use temporarily as your system profile to test Photoshop and Photo-PAINT.

PS will give you an error when loading as it knows that the monitor profile is messed up but use the profile anyway and load an image, your proof view for the image must either be the images color space of residence or the new monitor profile.  Set the messed up profile as your monitor profile in Photo-PAINT and make sure that the arrow is activated to the monitor.

 Now just as before Color Cop and Color Mania still read the same eyedropper readings from both applications but the display is seriously incorrect.  If you deactivate the arrow from the internal RGB to the monitor the images display has  as serious shift back toward its proper color space but it is still incorrect.

My previously posted methods work, the actual process that the software takes may be different as I did not hack the code and see exactly what it's doing but the end result is perfect. I don't know if PS and PP actually handle the conversion to the monitor profile or just hand it off to the OS but either way the end result is identical in both applications.

David Milisock:

Nope!  Whether it's the Huey of Gretag Profile Maker Pro software when you create a monitor profile and activate it through the operating system you must load it in the main color management dialog of the graphics suite. 

 I hear ya, but the Huey comes with a utility that installs on top of the O/S color management that will modify the screen colors for all applications that are running...so if that was done, + the profile was installed into CGS and enabled then you would bet seeing colors corrected twice...once by the Huey color software and then again by CGS....this would not be good.

 T.

Tony Severenuk:

but the Huey comes with a utility that installs on top of the O/S color management that will modify the screen colors for all applications that are running...so if that was done, + the profile was installed into CGS and enabled then you would bet seeing colors corrected twice...once by the Huey color software and then again by CGS....this would not be good.

Between you me and the fence post one would have to like pain to use such a utility.  However with that said I would like to see this in action as I have never been able to reproduce a double profile.  Every device I have ever used has never been able to apply a profile twice, you may be able to get some weird display with soft proofing but I have never been able to apply the same profile to an image twice.  They are not like applying a tone curve.

For example open any image and convert it to LAB, then convert to Adobe RGB and save the file without attaching a profile.  Then save as and rename the file this time embedding the Adobe RGB profile so you have two control images that display identically with an assumed color space of Adobe RGB.  They are in fact except for the one file having an embedded profile identical.  Make copies of these files and work with the copies.

 Open these files in any image editing, page layout application RIP or other device or application and try to convert to, apply or assign Adobe RGB then watch for a shift from the originals.

What I have found is that as long as in the destination device or editing application I assumed as the source color space, the images proper color space of residence all images opened, displayed and output properly and I have been unable to apply, convert to or assign the images resident color space with any effect what so ever on the RGB numbers or the display.

Tony Severenuk:

I hear ya, but the Huey comes with a utility that installs on top of the O/S color management that will modify the screen colors for all applications that are running...so if that was done, + the profile was installed into CGS and enabled then you would bet seeing colors corrected twice...once by the Huey color software and then again by CGS....this would not be good.

Tony Severenuk:

I hear ya, but the Huey comes with a utility that installs on top of the O/S color management that will modify the screen colors for all applications that are running...so if that was done, + the profile was installed into CGS and enabled then you would bet seeing colors corrected twice...once by the Huey color software and then again by CGS....this would not be good.

 T.

This is OK, IMHO. Utility sets some precise monitor parameters at first, like exact color temperature, gamma, black and white points and so... and later generate monitor profile, which is activated in system OS. If both working together (utility and profile), all is OK, but if to select some other profile (e.g., generic monitor profile from manufacturer), result will be wrong. So, if to set such profile in Draw/Paint CM, all will be right. I don't have Huey, but same principle use X-Rite/GM Match software and result are very good...

I agree with David's spiel. But I do think that Tony should write a blog on this after getting some inner detail.

You're right that might have been a printer profile. Using something that is screwed up is not a bad way of checking stuff is working. 

And I'm still wondering what CCM setting you use for Hexachrome and what century Mach 6 profiles will be supported. 

Yani 

If you select either the Windows ICM, WCS or the Adobe CMM you still need to select the same profiles in our color mgt dialog as in the other Color Management engines. If you don't then the other Color Management Engines will use the profiles that are loaded in our Color Management Dialog.

I was originally thinking if you select another Color Management Engine that CorelDRAW would automatically suck up the profiles from that engine and use them, but it does not.

T. 

David Milisock:

Tony Severenuk:

but the Huey comes with a utility that installs on top of the O/S color management that will modify the screen colors for all applications that are running...so if that was done, + the profile was installed into CGS and enabled then you would bet seeing colors corrected twice...once by the Huey color software and then again by CGS....this would not be good.

I guess the moral of the story is to use the Huey to generate a profile then manually load it into the Windows Color Management Engine and our Corel Color Management dialog and to disable the Huey Pro control Panel. Correct?

T. 

When even the boss is confused the help must need updating.

I actually find the twoeyes is the best final say in CM.

Oh and my monitor, LCD, has it's own strange idea of RGB space with is dim and yuck; and a dynamic function which changes the brightness depending on the % of black on screen; and the geforce card as an additional set of controls. So much for unified color management!